One thing to expande the useage of RaceChrono is the ability to use it for off road cycleling or cycleing of any type, The create your own track function is useful, but if possible could a series of options be added for cycleing or jogging. Not much need changing other than the performance options, and have a track category for differant modes of transport.
Being able to export a GIF/JPEG/EPS of the track map would be great. I'm doing stickers of the track map for each track I visit and tracing a screenshot for each track is tedious.
In the tracks section, it would be nice to have your best lap, and track record, as well as distance, so you can quickly find out your records the the track distance.
I did not want to make big deal out of it as it is not very well tested, and it is just a direct compilation from the smart phone software. But many seem to like it, so have fun :)
And yes there is lot of stuff, but I still plan to do at least half of it :-)
I agree with Pickled Onion, a stand alone PC software that can be used to analyze sessions (not to record) with sime nice graphs, and mapping, is something realy usfull.
Would be awesome if logging support for Innovative Motorsports products (LC-1, OT-1, LMA-3, SSI-4, etc) was added (even if only logging LC-1 wb02 was supported first). The Innovative SDK is available HERE to make it easier for devs to integrate their products.
If support is added for the Innovatuve SDK, then logging of all their products can be integrated.
Alright I think I have quite good overview on the products they offer. The integration with RaceChrono certainly seems certainly possible (although the SDK is no use for me, but the protocol should be possible to decode directly).
I'm a bit unsure how many would use this feature? The products are a bit expensive, and I would probably have to buy some to properly support them... Would be interesting project, that's for certain, but I have to also think how to use my time to do features serve wide audience. So I invite anyone else to comment who thinks this feature would be very useful :-)
I know several projects decode the serial feed for the LC-1 and LM-1 products (such as RomRaider and evoscan) so I'm sure you can do it that way if you wanted. I agree their product range is quie expensive, but the LC-1 is arguably the most common wideband 02 kit used for perm installs and I'm sure there would be many users of RC that would have an LC-1 installed.
The main reason for suggesting you use the sdk instead of decoding the serial data is that it will allow RC to support all their products and you won't have to use all your time trying to decode the serial stream for each device. From a users point of view, I guess it doesn't matter how it is implemented :P
Lastly, what wired OBD2 devices does RC support? I tried a openport 1.3u cable and it didn't work - does it only support ELM based OBD2 cables?
Alright, let's wait for more requests for the LC-1 and maybe I'll implement it!
I haven't tested any wired products, but the command set used is ELM327. So theoretically all ELM327 readers plus the clones should work. Do you know what is the most common ELM327 based cable? I think I might buy one for testing.
Not sure about the most common ELM based cable, but the cheap $20 ebay vag-com (clone) obd2 cables are popular for generic OBD2 logging.
Like you mention, if RC works with wireless/bluetooth ELM327 devices then it should also work with wired ELM327 devices - so I will purchase one of the cheap ELM327 cables off ebay to test OBD2 logging in the windows xp version of RC though for the moment.
Currently the KML export do not have GPS speed / altitude / time information either. If here are proficient KML experts, please submit me some example KML files how RaceChrono export should look like (to tracks(at)racechrono.com address).
Please use the current "All laps" KML export as basis, and change it as much as you like.
I just haven't got the time to figure out how to make perfect KML exports :)
I have a couple of suggestions for improving the start / finish addition and traps.
When crossing the start line, it isn`t always easy to click the `add trap` text, its in the bottom corner of the screen. What I`d like is the option to click the add start / finish box, then click add trap, but that takes you to another screen, with a huge button across the middle that you press when crossing the line. That would be much easier in a moving track car, than the small `add trap` text at the bottom left.
On a similar vein, I`d like to do the same for adding traps, once I`ve added a start , I would like the button in the middle of the screen to change to `add trap`, with a smaller button at the bottom to `add finish`. That way, as I was driving round, I could easily click the `add trap` button whenever I wanted a split point, then, once I crossed the finish line, I could click the `add Finish` button (unless it was a track where the start / finish was shared, in which case, I`d set that option before going on track and it would not show the `add finish` button, as it would know the start was the finish)
Hope that makes sense? I`m not picking fault, just offering suggestions I feel would aid the use of the program.
Nigep, thanks for the suggestions! They make perfect sense. The RaceChrono user interface is still heavily in "non-touchscreen world" and not that nice with touchscreen... I hope to improve that in the coming versions!
How about support for USB DAQ devices? Admittedly, that means you need to run RaceChrono on something with a host USB port, which I think knocks out every Symbian device and most PDAs. Still, there's a few PDAs out there with host-based USB and this bridges the devices to Ethernet, which can then be conencted to a wireless bridge. That's all, perhaps, a little complex though!
Possible at least in theory. But I guess there could be some practical problems, like writing the USB device driver for WM for that device. If it turns out not to be too much work, then why not, but right now I'm a bit scared of that :-)
RS232 would be so much easier! Like the feed coming from RaceTechnology DL-1 for example. Here's some specs for it's serial ports:
"DL1 Serial Ports 2 separate ports. Port 1 fixed at a baud rate of 115200 baud. Whilst logging outputs all data from all channels at 100Hz. Also used for reflashing, diagnostics and configuration. Port 2 used for inputting RS232 data for storage during a run, from an ECU, OBDII adapter or any other compatible device."
I don't have the unit but would be very interesting to support that. But I guess before buying it, one should ask for the output format from the manufacturer etc, to make sure it actually outputs everything we need (like the GPS data).
Also we would need to have devices with RS232 (well maybe netbook), or use RS232-Bluetooth adapter.
Yes, I realise it's probably a step too far for WM. Perhaps it's more of an idea for laptops. I don't know how the Ethernet interface works, though. The issue I have with supporting the DL1 is that it moves RaceChrono from a logging solution that anyone can implement for ~£150 and swap from car to car, to a wired-in expensive datalogging package. I know I could go out and buy a DL1 for £500 tomorrow and spend the next week or two hooking up all sorts of sensors but RaceChrono gives me a lot of info for the cost of a £50 GPS unit and the phone I use every day. I'd like something that bridged the gap but from what I've seen, everything that's suitable for RC-compatible hardware is up to the DL1 price bracket for something not quite as good.[P]
There are a few RS232 (or RS485 with an adapter) DAQ modules like this, which samples 8 channels at 60Hz for £133 and can be connected to a BlueTooth serial adapter. That particular model is RS485 and can be daisy-chained to a load of other modules for all sorts of inputs and outputs. These are dead cheap and stackable but the 9600bps limits them to about 80Hz sampling shared through all the inputs, so that's 10Hz for each of the 8 inputs, which is pretty rubbish.[P]
If you did want to go down the route of supporting some hardware like this, it might be an idea to offer a job to someone who can build a cheap board with a microcontroller on it and a BlueTooth interface. BlueTooth modules are cheap and microcontrollers with lots of inputs are less than a tenner! Maybe this would be the best way forwards?
Yes, I could support some home grown systems. It just would have to be good enough to interest me personally (so that I can implement it for fun for myself) or be interesting to wide audience (so I can get more users through this).
Problem with receiving sensor data only over Bluetooth, is the fact that it would need another Bluetooth connection (in addition to a connection for GPS and maybe OBD-II). This will make it fairly unreliable. OBD-II works with GPS because the data rate is so slow, but even that have some problems in some situations.
So my opinion is that should either connect with wired connections (serial port), or rather have a central "hub" that connects all the sensors as well as GPS, and relays that all data to RaceChrono over Bluetooth or RS232. This solution could also include separate solid state recording, so nothing is lost even if your phone runs out of battery, or Bluetooth gets disconnected. This idea is rather similar to our email discussions before.
Yeah and that brings us full circle to importing CSV data from the DynoStar, which is incredibly cost-effective. The GPS data from the DynoStar can be used to sync the logs, with the 5Hz GPS logged by RC used for the speed/position data.
Great bit of software, love it, well done, will be making a donation soon!
Couple of requests:-
1) Windows Mobile, can it be made to run full screen to get rid of the top windows task bar? maybe i can do that as a setting on my phone does anyone know?
2) Under the session name "display mode" i can pick date created, driver or note, cant it just show them all, one after the other and trim if its too long? Looks like there is plenty of room on my phone.
3) When in Landscape mode (the only way it will fit in my car) i loose one of the read outs, the last lap reading, can you make it shrink to fit and have all 3 in landscape? You should have enough space once you have done step 1 :-)
4) an option on screen to touch and change the driver during a session, and log it in the laptimes. We jump in and out on track and never bother starting a new session each time, and then of course, cant be sure, who did what lap time! pressing on screen would be perfect.
5) Simple laptime export in excel, can i just export the simple laptimes and sector times? When i run the export the output is huge, i would like to just keep a simple output of the laptimes as i see on screen without all the extra blurb i get in the excel export.
1) I tried to do that, but failed... I'm not as skilled in Windows Mobile yet as in Symbian :)
2) Yeah true. This is because the standard controls were limited in S60. Now that the UI is 100% custom, I could just re-do the whole sessions list. It could show number of laps and best lap as well... Just haven't had the time to revisit the list.
3) I chose to do it like that to have bigger font (easier to read). On portrait its not a problem as font is big enough. Did you notice you can switch between best/prev by tapping at the line?
4) Not sure if there is a way to implement this without it being confusing. You can already add notes to your laps. Also you wouldn't have to start a new session each time, you can have two session and pause/resume them accordingly :)
5) Yeah this has been on my to-do list too long, without implementation ... :(
1) You seem pretty skiiled to me :-)
3) i just dont have the time to start pressing the screen when out on track at full speed..a real shame that i loose features due to my screen orientation, maybe it could automatically rotate the display between best and last say every 1 second?
4) ah...didnt realise we could do that, that will work well, thanks!
another point...would be nice if you could set an auto discard lap feature, if say more than 50% over a lap time (a figure we can set) , so say 1:30 instead of a best of 1:00 then it auto marks them as invalid.
In a full track day, we end up with hundereds of laps and have to go discard all out laps, in laps and stopped laps manually.
Comments
Tks
The ability to upload JPG's with the track files so you can get a visual behind the track, this is great fo off road biking.
In the tracks section, it would be nice to have your best lap, and track record, as well as distance, so you can quickly find out your records the the track distance.
Performance Box and I2M (Danas) are good but not that flexible
http://www.racechrono.com/beta/RaceChrono_v1250_beta1_WindowsXP.msi
I did not want to make big deal out of it as it is not very well tested, and it is just a direct compilation from the smart phone software. But many seem to like it, so have fun :)
And yes there is lot of stuff, but I still plan to do at least half of it :-)
If support is added for the Innovatuve SDK, then logging of all their products can be integrated.
Leslie.
I'm a bit unsure how many would use this feature? The products are a bit expensive, and I would probably have to buy some to properly support them... Would be interesting project, that's for certain, but I have to also think how to use my time to do features serve wide audience. So I invite anyone else to comment who thinks this feature would be very useful :-)
I know several projects decode the serial feed for the LC-1 and LM-1 products (such as RomRaider and evoscan) so I'm sure you can do it that way if you wanted. I agree their product range is quie expensive, but the LC-1 is arguably the most common wideband 02 kit used for perm installs and I'm sure there would be many users of RC that would have an LC-1 installed.
The main reason for suggesting you use the sdk instead of decoding the serial data is that it will allow RC to support all their products and you won't have to use all your time trying to decode the serial stream for each device. From a users point of view, I guess it doesn't matter how it is implemented :P
Lastly, what wired OBD2 devices does RC support? I tried a openport 1.3u cable and it didn't work - does it only support ELM based OBD2 cables?
cheers
Leslie.
I haven't tested any wired products, but the command set used is ELM327. So theoretically all ELM327 readers plus the clones should work. Do you know what is the most common ELM327 based cable? I think I might buy one for testing.
Like you mention, if RC works with wireless/bluetooth ELM327 devices then it should also work with wired ELM327 devices - so I will purchase one of the cheap ELM327 cables off ebay to test OBD2 logging in the windows xp version of RC though for the moment.
Cheers,
Leslie.
Please use the current "All laps" KML export as basis, and change it as much as you like.
I just haven't got the time to figure out how to make perfect KML exports :)
When crossing the start line, it isn`t always easy to click the `add trap` text, its in the bottom corner of the screen. What I`d like is the option to click the add start / finish box, then click add trap, but that takes you to another screen, with a huge button across the middle that you press when crossing the line. That would be much easier in a moving track car, than the small `add trap` text at the bottom left.
On a similar vein, I`d like to do the same for adding traps, once I`ve added a start , I would like the button in the middle of the screen to change to `add trap`, with a smaller button at the bottom to `add finish`. That way, as I was driving round, I could easily click the `add trap` button whenever I wanted a split point, then, once I crossed the finish line, I could click the `add Finish` button (unless it was a track where the start / finish was shared, in which case, I`d set that option before going on track and it would not show the `add finish` button, as it would know the start was the finish)
Hope that makes sense? I`m not picking fault, just offering suggestions I feel would aid the use of the program.
RS232 would be so much easier! Like the feed coming from RaceTechnology DL-1 for example. Here's some specs for it's serial ports:
"DL1 Serial Ports 2 separate ports. Port 1 fixed at a baud rate of 115200 baud. Whilst logging outputs all data from all channels at 100Hz. Also used for reflashing, diagnostics and configuration. Port 2 used for inputting RS232 data for storage during a run, from an ECU, OBDII adapter or any other compatible device."
I don't have the unit but would be very interesting to support that. But I guess before buying it, one should ask for the output format from the manufacturer etc, to make sure it actually outputs everything we need (like the GPS data).
Also we would need to have devices with RS232 (well maybe netbook), or use RS232-Bluetooth adapter.
There are a few RS232 (or RS485 with an adapter) DAQ modules like this, which samples 8 channels at 60Hz for £133 and can be connected to a BlueTooth serial adapter. That particular model is RS485 and can be daisy-chained to a load of other modules for all sorts of inputs and outputs. These are dead cheap and stackable but the 9600bps limits them to about 80Hz sampling shared through all the inputs, so that's 10Hz for each of the 8 inputs, which is pretty rubbish.[P]
If you did want to go down the route of supporting some hardware like this, it might be an idea to offer a job to someone who can build a cheap board with a microcontroller on it and a BlueTooth interface. BlueTooth modules are cheap and microcontrollers with lots of inputs are less than a tenner! Maybe this would be the best way forwards?
Problem with receiving sensor data only over Bluetooth, is the fact that it would need another Bluetooth connection (in addition to a connection for GPS and maybe OBD-II). This will make it fairly unreliable. OBD-II works with GPS because the data rate is so slow, but even that have some problems in some situations.
So my opinion is that should either connect with wired connections (serial port), or rather have a central "hub" that connects all the sensors as well as GPS, and relays that all data to RaceChrono over Bluetooth or RS232. This solution could also include separate solid state recording, so nothing is lost even if your phone runs out of battery, or Bluetooth gets disconnected. This idea is rather similar to our email discussions before.
Great bit of software, love it, well done, will be making a donation soon!
Couple of requests:-
1) Windows Mobile, can it be made to run full screen to get rid of the top windows task bar? maybe i can do that as a setting on my phone does anyone know?
2) Under the session name "display mode" i can pick date created, driver or note, cant it just show them all, one after the other and trim if its too long? Looks like there is plenty of room on my phone.
3) When in Landscape mode (the only way it will fit in my car) i loose one of the read outs, the last lap reading, can you make it shrink to fit and have all 3 in landscape? You should have enough space once you have done step 1 :-)
4) an option on screen to touch and change the driver during a session, and log it in the laptimes. We jump in and out on track and never bother starting a new session each time, and then of course, cant be sure, who did what lap time! pressing on screen would be perfect.
5) Simple laptime export in excel, can i just export the simple laptimes and sector times? When i run the export the output is huge, i would like to just keep a simple output of the laptimes as i see on screen without all the extra blurb i get in the excel export.
its great though, excellent project, well done!
1) I tried to do that, but failed... I'm not as skilled in Windows Mobile yet as in Symbian :)
2) Yeah true. This is because the standard controls were limited in S60. Now that the UI is 100% custom, I could just re-do the whole sessions list. It could show number of laps and best lap as well... Just haven't had the time to revisit the list.
3) I chose to do it like that to have bigger font (easier to read). On portrait its not a problem as font is big enough. Did you notice you can switch between best/prev by tapping at the line?
4) Not sure if there is a way to implement this without it being confusing. You can already add notes to your laps. Also you wouldn't have to start a new session each time, you can have two session and pause/resume them accordingly :)
5) Yeah this has been on my to-do list too long, without implementation ... :(
3) i just dont have the time to start pressing the screen when out on track at full speed..a real shame that i loose features due to my screen orientation, maybe it could automatically rotate the display between best and last say every 1 second?
4) ah...didnt realise we could do that, that will work well, thanks!
another point...would be nice if you could set an auto discard lap feature, if say more than 50% over a lap time (a figure we can set) , so say 1:30 instead of a best of 1:00 then it auto marks them as invalid.
In a full track day, we end up with hundereds of laps and have to go discard all out laps, in laps and stopped laps manually.